The Great Debate

[The Lost Boy]

Originally posted by SirBax+Oct 26 2004, 01:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (SirBax @ Oct 26 2004, 01:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-The Lost Boy@Oct 26 2004, 11:53 AM
When I say shoot the intruder, I'm talking about shooting to kill. It's still not justified to shoot with the intent to kill an intruder, simply because they're in your house. Clearly stated in 776.031

I think you need to re-read the clause.

EXCERPT -
Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCEHowever, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.

That is the last sentance of the law. There is no retreat clause if you are in your home or place of work in the state of Florida.

Now you can only use deadly force if it is a "forcable felony".

Below you will find again the defination of forciable felony.

Title XLVI
CRIMES Chapter 776
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE View Entire Chapter

776.08  Forcible felony.--"Forcible felony" means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

History.--s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 4, ch. 75-298; s. 289, ch. 79-400; s. 5, ch. 93-212; s. 10, ch. 95-195.

[/b][/quote]
So you believe you're justified in shooting and killing a person in your home? Let's say he or she is in your living room stealing your possesions and putting them in a sack, and they have a black beanie on and there's no doubt they're a burglar.

 

[SirBax]

I would not have a problem and neither would the state of Florida.

 

[SirBax]

A long while ago I told you all I was a Christian conservative. That means that my Christianity comes first, so to answer your question. No, I do not beilieve in a womans right to choice.

However, the argument and path you are going down are clearly defined as seperate circumstances in the Scripture.

 

[SirBax]

To give you a basic answer to your drug question, No, but not because of the thing, but because of what that thing does to a persons state of mind.

For instance, I have no problem with the legalization of hemp, just not the use of the same plant as an unregulated drug.

It really is a side topic. If you would like to discuss this in a seperate thread I am willing to do that.

 

[SirBax]

Originally posted by dascoot+Oct 26 2004, 02:10 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (dascoot @ Oct 26 2004, 02:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

<!--QuoteBegin-Michelle
Bottom line, if I lived somewhere that I felt the need to be in possession of any type of weapon fearing that I might be attacked or otherwise, I think I'd seriously consider moving.

Here's the thing about that Michelle. I know where he lives, I lived there for 18 years before I went on to college. We're not talking downtown Miami here, we're talking Palm Freaking Harbor where the biggest game to hunt is the mighty squirrel and the only human threat is the gangs of roving old people and the rich white folks out by the water. [/b][/quote]
As a matter of fact, there was a double homicide just last week in my area. Again, it is foolish to think that just because something hasen't yet happed, it won't.

 

[SirBax]

Originally posted by The Lost Boy@Oct 26 2004, 02:47 PM
So you believe you're justified in shooting and killing a person in your home? Let's say he or she is in your living room stealing your possesions and putting them in a sack, and they have a black beanie on and there's no doubt they're a burglar.

Just out of curiosity; by what standard do know that it is wrong? Put another way, who makes up the rules?

 

[The Lost Boy]

What are you talking about? KILLING IS WRONG. How much more do I have to fucking simplify it for you, man? The basic values and morals of mankind...

 

[dascoot]

The Bible says THOU SHALT NOT KILL. The Bible does NOT say THOU ART ALLOWED A GUN. So there goes your scripture argument.

That double homicide.. a random killing? Someone just walked right on into another person's house and just killed them? Or was it perhaps a spousal issue, something like that?

And since you obviously have no idea, marijuana has no more of an effect on "a persons state of mind" than alcohol, caffeine, tobacco, or any one of the assorted poisons passing as medicinal drugs. It's far less dangerous. In fact it's harmless. Unless someone takes it into their head to smoke some weed and then go joy riding of course.. but then again, that's the person acting, not the drug. And when some gets arrested for drunk driving, is the beer company ever charged with the crime?

 

[SirBax]

John Calvin's commentary of the sixth commandment was this...

The sum of this commandment is, that we should not unjustly do violence to anyone.

The key word here is unjustly. The Hebrew word used in this commandment most closely relates to or modern word - murder.

Murder is entirly diffrent from just killing.

 

[AmelieMellow]

hmm...well i'm just curious...what constitutes as "just killing"?

 

[andy]

this is why I have no religion...

SirBax, you're insane!

 

[SirBax]

At no time have I made a personal attack on any of you. I find it interesting that the only way some of you feel you can express your point of view is by calling the other person names.

Debate and discussion are how people communicate, taunts and name calling only lead to frustration.

 

[SirBax]

Originally posted by AmelieMellow@Oct 26 2004, 05:11 PM
hmm...well i'm just curious...what constitutes as "just killing"?

Capital punishment, legitimate warfare, self-defense, and similar acts are not forbidden by God, and would constitute just killing.

 

[andy]

Look, I love debate, don't get me wrong, but you're not debating. You're being very irrational. You have every right to believe what you believe, but it seems to me that you are trying to persuade the other people here.

I disagree with everything you've said so far, and I can. Killing shall never be justified, and a lot of what you say is good, will always be bad to me.

 

[SirBax]

Originally posted by andy@Oct 26 2004, 05:27 PM
Look, I love debate, don't get me wrong, but you're not debating. You're being very irrational. You have every right to believe what you believe, but it seems to me that you are trying to persuade the other people here.

I disagree with everything you've said so far, and I can. Killing shall never be justified, and a lot of what you say is good, will always be bad to me.

I wouldn't say it is irrational, just irrational to your worldview.

 

[andy]

Originally posted by SirBax@Oct 26 2004, 09:31 PM
I wouldn't say it is irrational, just irrational to your worldview.

So, shall I be persuaded and change my worldview, like you want?

 

[SirBax]

Originally posted by andy+Oct 26 2004, 05:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (andy @ Oct 26 2004, 05:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-SirBax@Oct 26 2004, 09:31 PM
I wouldn't say it is irrational, just irrational to your worldview.

So, shall I be persuaded and change my worldview, like you want? [/b][/quote]
If you you feel convicted to do so. I'm not stoping you. And the same goes in reverse. I just want to know the truth. But, caling others names or insults will not lead to getting closer to the truth. This I am sure of.

 

[andy]

Oh, please! The truth has been staring you in the eye since you got in this debate. But you're not willing to accept it. How will we discover the truth when only one side will listen, and be rational?

 

[SirBax]

Shameless self promotional post so I can hit the big 100th post. Yeah me!!!!

 

[SirBax]

Originally posted by andy@Oct 26 2004, 05:40 PM
Oh, please! The truth has been staring you in the eye since you got in this debate. But you're not willing to accept it. How will we discover the truth when only one side will listen, and be rational?

If the opposing side were being rational and as has been proported, all killing is unjust then why would some of you still be in favor of abortion? You see, the logic is just not there.