How is the Weather in your Area?

[leone]

Heh, the only thing I know about Jager is that it comes in a green bottle. h34r:

 

[Bloodlessr]

I like it for bombs.

 

[goodasgold]

Too much talk on our Canadian health care that many USA folks obviously know little about. It's not a perfect system, but it's still a really good program. We pay less on our taxes for this system then someone would pay on Health Insurance.

Anyways...why the hating on our System?

 

[leone]

Originally posted by goodasgold@Nov 10 2007, 01:55 PM
We pay less on our taxes for this system then someone would pay on Health Insurance.

Exactly. k:

 

[givemfitz]

Who's hating? I'm just telling the truth. Nothing against Canada or Canadians.

Our system is definitely out of control for those without insurance and that's a lot of people. They would all benefit immensely from your system. I however wouldn't and I was only speaking for myself

My information about your system comes from a Canadian In Thunder Bay (Hab) who happens to have had need of your system at the same time I was using ours. Our incomes aren't the same but we've had lengthy discussions about the pros and cons of both systems and for my particular situation I'll stick with ours any day. Anyway he's the one that told me about the vast differences in availability of quality care depending on where you live.

For myself my income tax would double if I lived in Canada. Since my health insurance costs me about 7% of what my income tax does if you were to include my deductibles from a recent hospitalization it means that I would pay 90% more for health care in Canada. These are facts. I'm sure you can see why someone in my shoes would prefer the status quo.

Never confuse economics with hate.

 

[goodasgold]

But you do pay tax on your income do you not?

Not all of the income tax we pay goes to the health care system. Only a small amount. Any health system will have people who have a negative experience with it.

My mother was in need of a heart operation about 15 years ago and everything worked out great. There is no way she could have afforded it under USA health insurance. I wonder if she would have even qualified due to a history of heart problems and diabities on her side of the family. The cost would have only resulted in great debt or worse.

My apologies for saying "hate." I just didn't like seeing negative words like "crappy" when it comes to something that works fairly well. Like I said before it's not not a perfect system, but it still works well.

 

[givemfitz]

Well yeah I pay income tax but yours is horrendous compared to ours just like the UK and since the only benefit I can see to doubling my income tax under your system would be the health care I can only say that 50% of mine would be for just that. Health care.

Hab is the one that called it crappy but he did defend the system overall saying that he's in an isolated area and that it's much better if you live in or close to a larger city which I guess most people in Canada do.

Glad to hear that your mom faired well but unless it was a transplant then I'm not sure why you think a family history of heart problems and diabetes would have disqualified her for surgery in the U.S. Is it your opinion that only people without illness qualify for surgery here? There is no waiting list for surgery if it's needed. Only organs. If you can't afford it you go on welfare and it's a hassle to be sure but it isn't denied. Hell half of Mexico lives here for the FREE health care. :rollseyes:

People here who need surgery get it one way or another in most cases. It's people who need money that don't qualify for loans here. :lol:

 

[leone]

I think he meant that he's not sure if his mom could have health insurance coverage with her history, not the surgery.

 

[Sir_Garland]

I'm sorry. I'm the one that started it all so that is my fault. I was not trying to hate on it either. I agree fully with fitz though. We really don't deny much here anymore. I actually work for a health insurance company now and I can tell you that we have even paid for botox claims just because the doctor found a medical diagnosis to bill it under.

You are correct that it is a lot cheaper but I think we pay more for it being more available. How long did your mother have to wait for her surgery? That's what I do not like about it. I'm willing to pay more so if I'm sick, I can get medical attention. I'm not saying ours is perfect or anything. We have flaws with it but I think ours works pretty well.

 

[givemfitz]

Well the laws vary from state to state but in general if you want to sell insurance you have to make it available to everyone even high risk patients although they would pay more.

As far as being able to afford it I'm curious as to where Canadian tax money goes if it isn't for health care. I know that they pay almost double what we do in most cases and if only a small portion goes to the health care system why is theirs so high?

They also pay more for most goods and services than us due to slightly higher sales taxes and import tariffs. We cry about our gas prices but they pay way more and Canada is where most of our oil comes from. What's up with that? Now their population is much smaller than ours so we're not talking about a lot of money overall compared to the U.S. budget but per person it's significant. I'm just curious where the money is going if it isn't for the FREE health care?

I'm not being argumentative here I would just really like to know.

 

[Sir_Garland]

Originally posted by leone@Nov 10 2007, 07:21 PM
I think he meant that he's not sure if his mom could have health insurance coverage with her history, not the surgery.

Right and he's probably meaning the pre-existing condition thing. What most people don't realize is that as long as you maintain coverage and do not have a gap in coverage of more than 63 days then pre-existing does not apply. Granted that is hard to do but health insurance should be a priority for everyone. Yes it is expensive, I completely understand that but all insurance is.

 

[goodasgold]

Originally posted by givemfitz@Nov 10 2007, 06:01 PM
As far as being able to afford it I'm curious as to where Canadian tax money goes if it isn't for health care. I know that they pay almost double what we do in most cases and if only a small portion goes to the health care system why is theirs so high?

Canadian Taxes go here

For most people taxes paid on income is low for health insurance. Taxes have been high because of the weak Canadian dollar as compared to the US. It use to be around 60 cents on the US dollar. But recently the Canadian dollar has been stronger the the US.

The health system has had very little to do with our high taxes.

 

[goodasgold]

Originally posted by Sir_Garland@Nov 10 2007, 06:01 PM
How long did your mother have to wait for her surgery?

Once the problem was diagnosed I think it was about a month.

 

[givemfitz]

Originally posted by Sir_Garland@Nov 10 2007, 05:01 PM
I'm sorry. I'm the one that started it all so that is my fault.

You didn't start anything bad. Hab is the only Canadian I know and I welcome the input and education from another source.

It would seem that there is misinformation on both sides but I'd still like to know why their taxes are so high if it isn't for health care.

And yeah if his mom tried to go out and get insurance when she needed surgery then she would pretty much be screwed but that's only natural. Ever try to get insurance on a car AFTER an accident?

My point all along has been that our health insurance is cheaper than the extra taxes that they pay.

I'm now told that I'm wrong and I'd just really like to know what they're paying the high taxes for.

 

[Sir_Garland]

And yeah if his mom tried to go out and get insurance when she needed surgery then she would pretty much be screwed but that's only natural. Ever try to get insurance on a car AFTER an accident?

Exactly The problem is that most people do not understand this concept.

 

[givemfitz]

Originally posted by goodasgold@Nov 10 2007, 05:18 PM

Canadian Taxes go here

Thanks

For most people taxes paid on income is low for health insurance.

I can see now where that's true. I would've paid $1400 more for health care under your system. Not as bad as I thought but I still prefer ours.

But recently the Canadian dollar has been stronger the the US.

Yeah I know. The U.S. dollar has been sucky of late.

The health system has had very little to do with our high taxes.

But now I'm wondering why Canada is so far in debt. I know we are too but I know the answer to that one and our taxes are still far lower.

 

[goodasgold]

There's snow on the ground and it seems to be staying for the moment. Hopefully the weather doesn't warm up too much so that it stays.

 

[Bloodlessr]

I have a simple solution, get a job with benefits, american dream and shit. My dad has had 3 major back surgeries and I had a major jaw surgery and we payed hardly anything. Jobs kicks ass. I don't feel like paying taxes to take care of someone else, because im an asshole, so america works for me.

I'd like america a hell of alot more if we privatized a lot of the shit the government does and moved more and more away from socialism. Brutal capitalist free market sounds kick ass to me.

 

[leone]

Originally posted by goodasgold@Nov 19 2007, 12:12 PM
There's snow on the ground and it seems to be staying for the moment.

And all we got was rain.

 

[givemfitz]

There's something about a day like today. When the air is so crisp and the sun is shining and the birds are singing that makes me remember the unopened tequila bottle in my kitchen cupboard.