Are Artists Sell-Outs?

[dhfsn]

Originally posted by dascoot@Aug 29 2003, 10:50 AM
Madonna? You REALLY need another million? No, you're doing it for the attention.. or whatever.

followed by...

She sells her music to ads for the sake of selling music.

Don't you think you're contradicting yourself there?

Some of the above mentioned artists clearly do not need the extra hundred thousand or two but really, is there such a thing as having enough money? For such a small hassle, it would be ludicrous to pass up that kind of opportunity. Anyways, as long as you are it doing for something you thoroughly like and enjoy, then I wouldn't necessarily consider it selling out...

 

[dascoot]

How do you figure I'm contradicting myself?

Madonna? You REALLY need another million? No, you're doing it for the attention.. or whatever.

means Madonna doesn't need money, she's selling her music for another reason. And:

Originally posted by dascoot@Aug 29 2003, 10:50 AM
She sells her music to ads for the sake of selling music.

means Madonna doesn't need money, she's selling her music for another reason. This is a contradiction? :blink:

And yes, while some folks can't make enough money and want more, more, more, there are actually people out there that can be satisfied with themselves and their families and don't need 6 Lexuses and a private jet to be happy (as an EXAMPLE, I know this is not everyone's goal when they sell their music).
And as for the small hassle, again this is a matter of opinion. Some people see it as just a signature on a piece of paper that grants an ad company permission and in turn earns them a bajillion dollars for little to no work. Others see it as the complete and utter desolation of their integrity, or selling their soul even. And that ain't a small hassle.
It's not ludicrous to pass it up. In fact, it's commendable to not give in to temptation, assuming integrity happens to be something you value. You ever been on a diet and walked right past the candy store without sneaking a peek? Same thing, different scale.
There really are bands/musicians out there that get into the business to create music for people to enjoy, and not for the sex, drugs, and glory. These bands/musicians work hard and follow their dreams - and yes, sometimes even sell their music to ads, but as I said before when you're first starting out, that's nothing more than another way to market yourself.

Originally posted by dhfsn@Nov 12 2003, 01:14 AM
Anyways, as long as you are it doing for something you thoroughly like and enjoy, then I wouldn't necessarily consider it selling out...

That's another point.. the term "selling out" has such a negative connotation when it comes to music. I stated before in another post something about how in my opinion Madonna was a sellout, etc etc, but I misspoke. (PS - this is where I'm contraditing myself.) Selling out is not a matter of opinion. You either sold your music to a corporation, or you didn't. Madonna is a sellout. Period. The opinion part comes into play when you decide whether or not you care that your favorite artist is a sellout. Besides, if you'll notice I also mentioned this in that previous post:

dascoot @Aug 29 2003, 01:50 PM
But so what? She wrote that little tune, she made it huge, let her do it.

Meaning: She's a sellout, yes. But it's her song. Let her do whatever the hell she wants with it. If she needs another $2 mil, fine. I don't have to respect her for it.
Rob Overseer is a sellout, but I do respect him, if nothing else because he's a damn fine musician trying to put his mark on a business that's oversaturated with Madonnas and plagued with file swappers.

 

[michelle]

i keep wanting to chime in on this discussion, but everytime i begin a post i mention britney spears selling pepsi, when supposedly she prefered coke (a-cola). but, i am not sure that's true or not... <_< (and, it's old news since she doesn't even have a contract with them anymore...)

would it make a difference to just hear the music and not see the personality in the television ads? i mean, some people are just media whores who want and need the publicity/attention... but i think i would have had somewhat less of a problem hearing britney sing about pepsi, back in the day, as opposed to actually seeing her in the ads.

anyway... melissa brings up a good point --

Rob Overseer is a sellout, but I do respect him, if nothing else because he's a damn fine musician trying to put his mark on a business that's oversaturated with Madonnas and plagued with file swappers.

have you ever started listening to a new/unheard of artist/band because their music was featured in an ad?

 

[déjà blü]

most artists should dive at opportunity to sell their music for commericals...

Aphex Twin aka Richard James is a perfect example. While having a strong underground following he may sell 100,000 copies of one of records his most popular releases. That does not add up to a lot of $$$ for Mr. Twin.

Yet Mr. Twin has made well over $150,000 to write music for just one 30 second spot for a British company. Why not jump at the chance to make some cash.

In addition, and has already been stated, commercials are sometimes where the underground music meets mainstream pop culture as many in the advertising industry are more in tune to underground 'trends' within music...

Perfect expamle being the VW ads that were running a couple of years ago. Spiritualized, The Orb, Hurricane #1 etc all received more exposure and hopefully maybe won over some new fans because these artists sold their music for use in VW's commericals.

More recently, how many people heard Mr. Scruff for the 1st time thru the Lincohn Navigator commericals. His music is brilliant but largely unknown to the general public.

Cheers...

 

[Imajika]

I don't think these artists are "selling out" at all. On of my favorite bands of all time (Ween) just had one of their songs used in a Honda commercial. Ween has always had a smaller fan base (compared to mega stars like U2, Madonna, The Rolling Stones, etc.) and I see their move to allow Honda to use the song as a great opportunity. They can attract more fans and sell more cds.

As Ween puts it: "S***, we have no problem taking money from Honda. Ween will play for anyone with a dollar and a gram."

I was slightly disappointed to hear several Fatboy Slim songs in recent commercials. But hey, Fatboy Slim has bills to pay too. He might as well sell the use of the song and make some money.

 

[ap2000]

Categorizing an artist as a "sellout" involves treading a fine line. In the end the reason an artist gets into the music business is to make money. If they werent in it for the dough, theyd be singing in some choir for the pure enjoyment of it. And besides, if artists didnt sell their music, only elusive original scores for commercials would be posted on this site....pretty useless.

 

[jmroze]

It seems like the resonable thing to do is make a living off your talents. It's the American dream. I may see an issue with (jacko) or family members of late-artists who sell their work for use in commercials which misrepresent the intent of the artist's message.

 

[AJK]

Most MM fans were upset when the band left Up Records for Epic; feeling that the act of going to a major label was selling out and in turn the quality of the music would suffer. Only time will tell... And as long as they keep playing amazing shows, I'm not going to be too upset.

Originally posted by Modest Mouse
Bankrupt On Selling
well all the apostles-they're sitting in swings
saying "i'd sell off my savior for a set of new rings
and some sandles with the style of straps that cling best to the era"
so all of the businessers in their unlimited
hell where they buy and they sell and they sell all their
trash to each other but they're sick of it all
and they're bankrupt on selling
and all of the angels
they'd sell off yer soul for a set of new wings and anything gold
they remember
the people they loved their old friends
and i've seen through'em all seen through'em all and seen through most everything
all the people you knew were the actors
all the people you knew were the actors
well, i'll go to college and i'll learn some big words
and i'll talk real loud
goddamn right i'll be heard
you'll remember all the guys that said all those big words he must've
learned in college
and it took a long time
i came clean with myself
i come clean out of love with my lover
i still love her
loved her more when she used to be sober and i was kinder

 

[j.clarke]

Hmmmmmmm..... this is a tough one.

Unless you're a member of a band - and, particularly, a struggling band - it's not really fair to cast a judgement on bands that go the "instant exposure route". It's really a question for the band to answer for themselves. What it is they are seeking, in the LONG RUN.

I just came on here, today, to ask what the song for the Nissan Quest commercial was... and found my answer. I'll have to research the band some mroe before I go and buy their CD. But, the decision to use their song on this TV spot exposed them to ME... and I, in turn, went looking for them! So, this right here is a plug for "selling out".

Now, what really is in question is whetheror not this band will be able to live up to the exposure they are recieving from this Nissan ad. They very well may turn out to be "that Nissan Quest band". I am a musician and have been in bands.... and, personally, I would be rather disappointed if my band was forever to be labeled as such. Personally, I'd rather get my exposure from the more tried and true modes.... approaches that earn long-lasting notoriety, and not the quick flash-in-the-pan variety.

Would Paul McCartney and John Lennon have allowed Brian Epstein to sign them into a contract allowing the use of "Please, Please Me" in some British advertisement for toothpaste back in 1963? I'd say "NO". I doubt Epstien would have wanted to send his fledgling talent to go that route either.

True, we are in a different times now. TV, internet, reality shows, etc... all give artists (and some nobodies) instant fame and exposure. But, perhaps some things do not change with the passing of time?

 

[evey35]

I can't help but enter in on this long discussion. As a musician who really doesn't give a sh*t about signing music contracts, making an album, or getting airplay; a musician who would rather actually just press a couple singles and make a few loops here and there to use in commercials...I gotta kinda wonder if that makes me a sellout? :blink:

I don't think so. I make music for the pure enjoyment of it. I have over 50 songs that I made "just for fun". I like to play them for my friends, I burn copies of CDs as presents, I enjoy publishing them on the net for people to listen to; it warms my heart to hear that people enjoy listening to it. If I somehow stumble across a way to make some extra cash from it, that's great! At least I'd be making money doing something I love, instead of plodding away at a fruitless job for the rest of my life. At least I know I can put that money into trying to create better music for myself. I think people who do something they hate just to make cash are the real sellouts, thus if making commercial music becomes more of a "job" that I dread doing, then I've become a sellout.

Similar questions: when an artist sells their paintings or gets commissioned by a mall, town centre, etc. to paint or sculpt something that will be showcased and seen by all...does the art community yell "Sell out"? Are published writers and poets sell-outs if they're asked to write a column in a newspaper or magazine? <_<

Like most people, I came to this site to find out who wrote a specific song I heard in a commercial. I've been searching for about two weeks now. Maybe someday I'll find out and buy the CD just because I liked 30 seconds of one song that much. I'd be extremely happy if someone was as diligently looking for something I composed!!

(As for people like Britney and Madonna out to make even more money, goodorevil did mention that most of the money made from the songs go toward charitable donations.)

 

[rs314]

i don't think selling out is really the issue. why should artists have to starve. on the otherhand, seeing lenny kravitz in target commercial made me kind of ill. if i like the music, particularly if it's new music i've never heard before, i'm just glad that i'v heard it. and not for nothing, but i don't think the word "artist" really applies to britney and madona et al.

 

[El Partidario]

Most definately.Without a doubt.
I am a realist. Yes I dream in utopian ideals but I also am aware of time and patience and change is a slow process...look at evolution.

There is no doubt that we live in an unequal and generally unfair world this cannot be denied by anyone.

It is virtually impossable to live a life in the west free from hypocrisy.

That to me, on a personal level, is the daily, monthly, yearly, lifelong challenge - to do
the best I can...be part of the solution and not part of the problem.
(If you dont think there is a problem stop reading now and go back to sleep).
and yes we all draw lines in different places.

We live in a throwaway society, nothing is sacred, if nothing is sacred then everything is meaningless.

Where does that leave us?

There`s not much you can do to reject the onslaught of the multinationals all over our popular culture.

If you want your music to sell you`re going to have to have adverts.
Yes, for the music itself!

To use a piece of music, an expression of the soul, as a soundtrack to an advert pushing alcohol, cars, huge flat screen TV`s to name just three, in a world with too many alcohol related problems, roads with too many cars and too much TV watching, is a crime, - right there is the hypocrsiy.

It will always fall into one of the catergies either, unethical, unprogressive and definately benefitting the few and not the many......

Maybe when a car made out of hemp plastics that runs on water (achievable) comes along I`d write a tune for it!

NIKE (Sweatshops)
Revolution - the Beatles

GAP (Sweatshops & cutting down Redwoods)
The Shining - Badly Drawn Boy

CARS CARS and more CARS

Pink Moon - Nick Drake (Volkswagen)
Little Fluffy Clouds - The Orb (Volkswagen)
What Do I Get? - Buzzcocks (Toyota)
20th Century Boy - T. Rex (Mitsubishi)

El Partidario ;0)